When I was living in the UK, I was at a convention in Manchester, North West England. On Saturday morning, the most INCREDIBLE thender/lightning extravaganza raged directly overhead the stadium. The flash was so bright it filled everything with white light, and the thunderclap was deafeningly instantaneous!
Most of the conventioners seemed to be somewhat scared. I, on the other hand, thought it was spectacular and awe-inspiring!
Anyway, I'm sending you a hug from China :)
Jonty
most of the so-called "good examples" that i knew of lived a "double life".
were you one of those that acted pious at the hall but elsewhere, behaved as someone not a witness?
I was not brought up in the truth, but my ex-wife, poor soul, was. Her mother gave her absolutely no sex education whatsoever, so I don't blame my ex-wife for being 100% shit scared of sex. However, notwithstanding the miserly ration of nuptual activity that was to be my meagre portion in over 20 years of marriage, I did not lead a double life (that is unless you consider masturbation-for-sanity to be leading a "double life").
However, 20 years of living on the threshold of celibacy finally took its tool on me. An "interested person" took a shine to me, and we struck up a friendship, which ultimately proved to the "thin end of the wedge" (great witnesses cliche)!
Anyway, once I had recovered from the trauma and the guilt feelings, the realisation that I was getting the greatest lay of my life kicked in, and I wanted more - so yes, I did lead a double life towards the end. And "the end" came pretty swiftly after that, because, being the romantic sod that I am, I actually fell in love with this other girl.
The upshot of all this was, that it threw me totally out of whack, and in addition to my sexual frustration, all my of pent up suspicion and mistrust of "The Organisation" came gushing to the fore... the rest, as they say, is history.
Looking back over the 9 years or so since the JW's and I acrimoniously parted company, I reckon I've just about made up for all the lays that I didn't get with my ex-wife, whatever that's worth. I am sorry for her though. I don't think any one wants to actually cause pain or hurt. But in the end, it just got too much for me to be able to deal with. I did not go looking for extra marital stuff, but one day it just came to me, and at that point n my life I couldn't say no anymore...
Can anyone else relate to any of this?
Jonty
allright everyone, do you remember some of the yearbook experiences, or yearbook worthy ones about how a bible study was started?
then you get jws trying to copy the examples, such as pretending to read an awake magazine on a bus, hoping someone will ask, "what are you reading that's so interesting?
" or leaving tracts in chain link fences, hoping someone will pull it out and look at it.. give some of the lame experiences you've heard, you've experienced, or make one up.
“A brother who was working aboard on business was travelling home on a privately chartered airplane. Because the brother was a zealous proclaimer of truth, he always carried with him a plentiful supply of brochures and magazines with him, even when travelling on business. Unfortunately, the plane developed engine trouble whilst flying over a tropical rainforest and crashed in the jungle. Sadly, both the pilot and the brother were killed in the crash.
However, the magazines and brochures were dispersed by the impact of the crash across a large are of rainforest, miraculously intact! These were later found by baboons, chimpanzees and other assorted primates who, although being unable to read, were able to deduce from the beautiful illustrations of man and beast living together in harmony, the truth of the forthcoming paradise. Understanding this in their own limited way, they even began using the brochures, augmented by simple sign and body languge, witnessing to other creatures, such as tigers and snakes.
The result? The Society are pleased to announce that, with the help of representatives from the WTBTS, there are now two thriving congregations of primates in the vicinity, all of whom are being taught to communicate effectively with sign language!”
This is a 100% fake experience (fabricated by myself when I was a humble, wise and loving overseer), to ridicule and silence my overbearing ex-mother in law who wanted to know what we talked about at the Kingdom Ministry School for Elders!
i've visited this board before and enjoyed it very much.
i was disfellowshipped many years ago, then went through 7 years of not even thinking about jws.
three years ago i started studying the bible.
Hi PaulE, and welcome! I'm rather new here myself, but I already feel I have gained so much benefit.
I know you are a caring person and that you wanted to help this chap, but don't assume personal responsibility for his spiritual welfare. And remember, it's very hard for one man to fight against the psycological might of the JW's. You'd be on a hiding to nothing there my friend!
Personally, apart from reading the occasional psalm or proverb for personal comfort, I have steered totally clear of bible study. My reason for this is, that I seriously doubt that it is possible to study the bible with any individual or organisation and for it to remain impartial. But that's just my view.
Anyway, welcome, and may you find peace and contentment.
Jonty
i never actually lied about the number of hours i put in, but i was extremely creative in how i counted them!
this, of course, was born of an intense hatred and loathing for the "work", coupled with the realisation that if my average did not hit double figures, i might be taken to task over it!
don't get me wrong, i wasn't scared of knocking on peoples doors and being told to regularly to "f*ck off"- i just could see no sense in it.
Hi Kate!
God, that's sooo funny! Yes, I remember the rural territory one. One day, there was not enough room in the car for everyone, so being a young, fit, healthy and caring elder, I voluntered to go back home for my bicycle!
This had two beneficial effects for me;
1) Boosting everybody's already sickeningly sycophantic adulation of me.
2) Ensuring that I had a wonderful 1 and a half hour cycle ride without speaking to a single soul! I simply put one leaflet through a door before I set out, and then one more when I got home! Amd I counted every second of the time!
haha!
Regards,
Jonty
i'm expecting a return visit from 2 nice jw ladies and i'm going to try counterwitnessing to them.
i've been warned about possibly wasting my time, which i know is a possibility.
i'm not afraid of them sucking me in- i know way too much now.
You could try a conversation like this -
"can you show me the scripture that specifically prohibits oral sex between consenting heterosexual married couples?"
Then you might ask "what is the scriptural viewpoint doing it 'doggie-style' between consenting heterosexual married couples (by constantly refering to "consenting heterosexual married couples" you are lending respectability and credibility to your questions)?"
Or you if you wanted to be more controversial, you might ask; "If I become a witness, will I still be allowed to wank? If so, how often, and what is material is considered appropriate by The Organisation? For example, do they provide a kingdom-wank-of-the-month picture calender, for wholseome theocratic solo relief?"
i never actually lied about the number of hours i put in, but i was extremely creative in how i counted them!
this, of course, was born of an intense hatred and loathing for the "work", coupled with the realisation that if my average did not hit double figures, i might be taken to task over it!
don't get me wrong, i wasn't scared of knocking on peoples doors and being told to regularly to "f*ck off"- i just could see no sense in it.
Did anybody else do this? Or was it just me?
I never actually lied about the number of hours I put in, but I was extremely creative in how I counted them! This, of course, was born of an intense hatred and loathing for the "work", coupled with the realisation that if my average did not hit double figures, I might be taken to task over it! Don't get me wrong, I wasn't scared of knocking on peoples doors and being told to regularly to "f*ck off"- I just could see no sense in it. I considered it to be humiliating, degrading and utterly futile!
One of my favourite ploys was to work alone as often as possible. Then I'd begin by knocking at a door where all the indications were that nobody lived there. I'd stay on the doorstep long enough for the others to wander ahead of me, then I would go to visit a dear, lonely old man, who lived alone in a quaint old cottage.
He had no interest whatsoever in Jehovahs Witnesses, but he made a lovely cup of tea! This was, I think, a perfect mutually advantageous arrangement. He would get at least one regular visitor 2 or 3 times a week, and I had somewhere to go other than "on the doors". He took the mags and books regularly, and I was even able to off-load tons of back-issues, thus further enhancing my otherwise meagre report!
I remember one afternoon, I made the terrible mistake of taking the CO with me to see this elderly chap. Wise cracking and funny from the"platform", this particular CO was so bloody rude and obnoxious to this dear, sweet old man, that it's a wonder he ever allowed me to visit him again! But he did, and sanity and good manners prevailed once more.
Towards the end of my glorious career as a loving and wise overseer (ho hum), I didn't even bother talking about the "truth" (which by then, I had begun to realise in my heart that it wasn't). Instead, I would listen to this old man talk about his life - his childhood memories - his war experiences and so on. The old man is dead now, bless him.
The ironic thing is that, with hindsight, I can see that these "beefed up hours" were of greater value in terms in terms of kindness and respect, than all the sodding hours I ever notched up on someone's doorstep!
Jonty
i just wanted to introduce myself before launching myself at the various threads.
i left when i was 14 and that was 30 years ago, i thought i was well over it but when i read some of the postings on here they really got to me.
there are definitely long term effects.
Fanny,
Some JW product ideas:
1) Roll-your-own cigarette paper (made from the pocket edition of the NWT).
2) CD release: Axl Rose sings kingdom melodies.
3) The "Kingdom time planner" - no matter how many hours you put in, it's never enough!
6) Theocratic memory-aid: renders all thought unneccesary (oops, they've got that already).
7) Kingdom Kondoms.
8) Latest convention release: Oral Sex? Why Not? (148 pages - hardbound).
Any others?
P.S. in England, where I am originally from, Fanny is used in the same way that you say Pussy - and I don't mean a cat!
Regards, Jonty
whether you're a doubter or another agitator, just look at what the bible says: .
1- jesus started one true christian religion.
after the christian arrangement had been established for some time, the apostle paul under inspiration further showed at ephesians 4:4, 5 that there must be just one body, or group, of true worshipers of god.
"Whether you're a doubter or another agitator, just look at what the Bible says:"
Hmmm... and if I use the freedom with which I have been so generously endowed by the loving heavenly Father, to choose not to accept what the bible says, that kind of renders the rest your long-winded "argument" (and I use the term loosely) rather ineffectual, doesn't it?
.
and it made me feel odd, unnerved.. i haven't been to a meeting for two years now and am quite anti jw but this still felt odd, to see her wearing a cross.
any ideas?
Hi Happehanna,
Don't worry about feeling unnerved. I don't know about you, but I was a JW for more than 20 years. It takes a long time to rid yourself of guilt feelings and and the lingering grip mind control when you have bought into such things for so long. But you do find yourself eventually.
The last meeting I attended was in 1998, but my now-treasured freedom of thought did not happen overnight. On the contrary, it took several years. But now, in the year 2004, I really do feel as though I have returned to my "factory-preset-default setting"; that is, an easy going, tolerant, life-loving person with an open mind.
One of your other correspondants on this thread suggested alternate means of spirituality, such as tarot cards, runes etc. Each to his/her own of course, but I personally have found these to be of value, and I am still an occasional bible reader, and I even say the odd prayer now and then. I use the quaballa, the I Ching, and I have even practiced simple candle healing spells popular among wiccans. Why, I have even found a pseudo "christian" tarot deck, called "tarot of the gnostic saints."
When I was an "elder" (ha ha!), I would have been appaled at any/all of the above, sumarrily dismissing such shocking outrageous practices as a demonic snare! Thankfully, however, my thinking is no longer conditioned and bound by such idiotic myopia, and I can actually think for myself again!
One reads a lot in JW literature (I use the term "literature" loosely!) about the folly of superstition and how we ought to avoid its snare if we want to please Jehovah. And yet the JW's are among the most overtly superstitious people on the surface of this planet! It is because of this legacy, which you are now slowly recovering from, that you are disturbed by your daughter wearing a cross.
Take a moment to remind yourself that it is only the JW's doctrines that formerly conditioned your thinking, not actual truth. You are now free. My advice to you, is to allow your daughter the same freedom. If she wants to wear a cross, let her.
But most importantly of all, dare to believe that you have the freedom and the capacity to formulate your own values and spiritual practices!
Jonty
